RomRaider

Open Source ECU Tools
 FAQ •  Register •  Login 

RomRaider

Documentation

Community

Developers

It is currently Mon May 20, 2013 10:29 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 29 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Techedge wideband?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:44 am 
Offline
Newbie

Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:46 pm
Posts: 61
Hey everyone,

Just wondering if anyone has done anything about integration with the techedge wideband?

They are an awesome product and well priced and really accurate.

I want to get into romraider on the liberty B4 i will be purchasing. would prefer a techedge wideband but if it cant log with romraider then i will have to get another LC1.


Cheers


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Techedge wideband?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 8:56 am 
Offline
Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2006 12:33 pm
Posts: 2085
Location: Palo, IA
I can't seem to find any information on it. Have a link?

_________________
- Jared


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Techedge wideband?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:50 am 
Offline
RomRaider Developer

Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 9:49 pm
Posts: 3662
Location: Canada eh!
http://wbo2.com/
This one right?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Techedge wideband?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 11:22 am 
Offline
Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2006 12:33 pm
Posts: 2085
Location: Palo, IA
Definitely doable. I'll try to take a look at it after I finish up the overhaul I'm working now. At first it looked dirt cheap but it looks like, once you figure everything you need, it's right there with the LC-1 and UEGO.

_________________
- Jared


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Techedge wideband?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 4:40 pm 
Offline
Newbie

Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:46 pm
Posts: 61
Awesome :) Yea they are a kick ass wideband.

I have one "2j1" one in my wrx race car, and my tuner said it was dead on with his $2500 wide band meter :) So i was pretty stoked with it!

I like it much better than the LC-1 i used to have.

Dont know how all this stuff works, but if you guys are able to get this up and running i will be happy to donate and show my appreciation :D

Do we donate to the whole project or to the coder? (or both?)

Cheers :D


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Techedge wideband?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 4:46 pm 
Offline
Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2006 12:33 pm
Posts: 2085
Location: Palo, IA
I haven't implemented any widebands myself yet but I don't think it would be impossible to do without having one here myself, if you'd be willing to test. If we could get a few people together to donate enough to buy one it would be easier. I've got a sensor and gauge so it looks like $159au would cover it. Do I need to buy a cable and/or harness to work with my Bosch sensor? The site isn't very user friendly.

_________________
- Jared


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Techedge wideband?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 8:07 pm 
Offline
RomRaider Developer

Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 9:49 pm
Posts: 3662
Location: Canada eh!
Once we know the protocol the rest is easy. I did the NAW_7S way back when.

Another way is you attach the linear output to a Tactrix Openport2 pin 8 then use the standalone logger in it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Techedge wideband?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 8:16 am 
Offline
Newbie

Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:46 pm
Posts: 61
qoncept wrote:
I haven't implemented any widebands myself yet but I don't think it would be impossible to do without having one here myself, if you'd be willing to test. If we could get a few people together to donate enough to buy one it would be easier. I've got a sensor and gauge so it looks like $159au would cover it. Do I need to buy a cable and/or harness to work with my Bosch sensor? The site isn't very user friendly.



Hey mate,

I am happy to test it.

If you are fairly confident that we should be able to get it going i will buy one, otherwise i could take the one out of my race car if you are not too confident (just means more stuffing around).

Let me know what you want/need me to do :)

EDIT: Actually im not racing this year to sort out finances so i will take the wideband out of it and then buy a new one at the end of the year.
So i will likely have my new car (02 liberty b4) on monday/tuesday coming up and my open port 2.0 should arrive early next week to.

Let me know what you want and i will do my best to get it to you!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Techedge wideband?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:14 am 
Offline
Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2006 12:33 pm
Posts: 2085
Location: Palo, IA
Yeah, I'd definitely be more comfortable if you didn't buy one based on our word that we'll get it supported. :) Doing the work isn't a problem, finding the time is going to be the hard part. I'm interested too, though. I'm not all that happy with my LC-1.

_________________
- Jared


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Techedge wideband?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 7:24 pm 
Offline
Newbie

Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:46 pm
Posts: 61
qoncept wrote:
Yeah, I'd definitely be more comfortable if you didn't buy one based on our word that we'll get it supported. :) Doing the work isn't a problem, finding the time is going to be the hard part. I'm interested too, though. I'm not all that happy with my LC-1.



Sweet :)

Well i will keep my eye on this, just let me know when you have a chance and what you need. (hopefully in the next month :D)

Cheers


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Techedge wideband?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 7:40 am 
Offline
RomRaider Donator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 3:49 am
Posts: 1054
Location: Australia
They have quite bit of info available to those who want to use their wb02 for logging via serial. The following is about the protocol they use and the info you'd need to add support into RomRaider Logger:

Quote:
Serial Frame Formats for 2.0 (and above) WBo2 & 1.5 Logger

This section lists a number of frame types that can be produced by (most) WBo2 controllers. It should be remembered that the frame types have evolved with the aim of backward compatibility but this has resulted in some strange values for some fields.

In the notes below, [low] and [high] byte groupings form 16 bit words (in Motorola format) with MSB first. User Input values represent voltages between 0 and 5.00 Volts and are 13 bits (in the range 0 to 8191). Thermocouple values are only 10 bits and (when the jumpers are set correctly) cover the range 0 to 0.0495 Volts (or 49.5 mV). This represents an amplification factor of 101 to the raw thermocouple values. Go here for more detail on thermocouples and thermistors.

The first 3 (bytes 1, 2 & 3) and last (CRC byte 12) bytes of all data frames are the same and allow the receiving computer to correctly synchronise with data and to check that data has not been corrupted.


The native mode for version 2 and newer units is the 2.0 mode frame format:
  • The first 3 bytes (frame ID, & frame sequence counter) and last byte (CRC) are as described in the 1.5 frame below.
  • Bytes 4 & 5 count relative time in Ticks - measured in 1/100 of a second (ie. 10 mSec/tick). The count goes from 0 to 65535 (unsigned) and will overflow in just under 11 minutes (10 minutes, 55 seconds & 35 mSec) and should be sufficient to act as a timebase for most logging tasks.
  • Bytes 6 & 7 Originally Wblin DAC count, but in 2007 these two bytes were redefined to be Lambda-16 for all controllers except 3H1 where it is Ipx (0).
    • Lambda-16 (λ-16) is fully described here and is an accurate way to represent the full range of Lambda values in a simple and controller independent way.
    • Ipx (0) - For the 3H1 unit = first channel's Ipx (see below). The next 3H1 field is Ipx(1).
    • WBlin DAC count is used to generate the WBlin output voltage. It's a 12 bit value (0 to 4095) that is applied to the DAC (Digital to Analogue converter) and represents the voltage in mVolts produced by the DAC. The DAC is followed by a amplifier with a gain of 1.00 (for newer version 3 units) or 1.22059(=(68+15)/68 for older version 2 units). Note that the WBlin value is looked up in the WB unit's EE PROM tables using the pump current (Ipx) as index.
  • Bytes 8 & 9 is the (single channel) Ipx or Normalised Pump Current. For 3H1 it's the second channel Ipx or Ipx(1) - After a calibration factor has been applied to the raw pump current, the resulting normalised pump current Ipx has a free-air value of 8192 and a zero pump current value of 4096 (which is not quite the stoich point). A value of 0 represent the richest condition that can be sensed by the WB unit (less than AFR=10).
  • Bytes 10 through 15 are the three 0 to 5.00 Volt user inputs U1, U2 & U3 (there's an additional user input available on version 2.0 compared to 1.5). Although the inputs are sampled at 10 bit accuracy, the result is multiplied by 8 giving 1024 steps (ie. 0, 8, 16 .. 8176, 8184). This ensure version 1.5 frame compatibility and allows for future hardware having increased measurement accuracy (up to 13 bit accuracy)
  • Bytes 16 through 21 are the three thermocouple inputs T1, T2 & T3. These fields are described more fully here.
  • Byte 22 & 23 represent either the thermistor (models with thermocouple inputs), or the Vss count (vehicle speed sensor) for 2J1 models.
    • 10 bit thermistor count can be used for cold junction compensation (CJC) to calculate each thermocouple's absolute temperature. Refer to eXcel spreadsheet thermist.xls for further information.
    • Vss count is like the RPM count but counts 100 μSec periods (not 5 μSec). two successive counts are averaged.
  • Bytes 24 & 25 is the RPM count and has the same format as the 1.5 frame (ie. count 1 = 5 μSec) but with the additional feature of averaging two successive triggering events to cater for odd fire engines that may be triggered from the one coil.
  • Bytes 26 & 27 Status/Error bytes see Error Codes section

2.0 Data Frame Format:
Byte - Description
1 - Frame Header byte 1 (0x5A)
2 - Frame Header byte 2 (0xA5)
3 - Frame Sequence counter
4 - Tick [high] (1 tick = 1/100 Second)
5 - Tick [low] byte
6 - λ-16 or Ipx(0), (or ADC) [high] byte
7 - λ-16 or Ipx(0), (or ADC) [low] byte
8 - Ipx(1) [high] (8192=F/A, 4096=Ipx[0])
9 - Ipx(1) [low] byte
10 - User 1 ADC [high] (V1 input)
11 - User 1 ADC [low] byte
12 - User 2 ADC [high] (V2 input)
13 - User 2 ADC [low] byte
14 - User 3 ADC [high] (V3 input)
15 - User 3 ADC [low] byte
16 - Thermocouple 1 ADC [high] (T1 Input)
17 - Thermocouple 1 ADC [low]
18 - Thermocouple 2 ADC [high] (T2 Input)
19 - Thermocouple 2 ADC [low]
20 - Thermocouple 3 ADC [high] (T3 Input)
21 - Thermocouple 3 ADC [low]
22 - Thermistor ADC or Vss count [high]
23 - Thermistor ADC or Vss count [low]
24 - RPM count [high] byte
25 - RPM count [low] bye
26 - Status/Error [high] byte
27 - Status/Error [low] byte
28 - CRC (1's comp. sum of above)


The native mode for version 1.5 units is the 1.5 mode frame format:
  • Bytes 1 & 2 are the fixed frame signature bytes of 0x5A, 0xA5 (ie. hex values). These value were chooses as they have alternating 0->1 bit patterns.
  • byte 3 is the frame sequence counter and simply counts from 0 to 255 and then repeats, and allows the receiver to keep track of possible lost data frames. All these values are included in the CRC calculation.
  • Bytes 4 and 5, the SVout ADC value, is compatible with the version 1.5 unit (and the 5301/LD01 displays). SVout is described in the DIY-WB 1.0/1.5 section as the Vout signal. The SVout value (ie. Vout) varies from a minimum rich value of 0x068E (=1678 decimal, so SVout is 5*1678/8192=1.02 Volts) to maximum lean (ie. free air) value of 0x199A (=6554 decimal, so SVout is 5*6554/8192=4.00 Volts). The Min and Max SVout values are clamped by the firmware.
  • Bytes 6 through 9 are the two 0 to 5.00 Volt User Inputs U1, U2 (U3 is not returned) On the 1.5 unit these inputs are really a 10 bit value that is sampled rapidly 8 times and summed. On the 2.0 unit there is just one 10 bit sample for each channel, but the result is shifted 3 places to be compatible with the 1.5 data. (ie. there are 1024 steps - 0, 8, 16 .. 8176, 8184) for version 1.5 compatibility.
  • Bytes 10 and 11, the RPM count measure how many 5 microsecond time periods are counted between successive positive pulse edges on the COIL or RPM Pulse input pins. As the frequency of the pulses increases (RPM goes up), the count goes down. For a four cylinder 4 stroke engine (that produces two spark events per revolution), at 6,000 RPM there are 100 revolutions per second and 200 spark events and therefore the COIL input will measure 5,000 microseconds between sparks, or an RPM count of 1,000 for bytes 10 and 11. Note that if the pulse rate is lower than 20 per second then the unit will "time out" and return an invalid count.
  • Final CRC byte 12, when added to all the other bytes in the frame, and truncated to 8 bits, should result in the value 0xFF. If not then at least one bit in the frame has been zapped and the frame's data should not be trusted. As the sequence counter constantly changes, then the CRC value will also change.

1.5 Data Frame Format:
Byte - Description
1 - Frame Header byte 1 (0x5A)
2 - Frame Header byte 2 (0xA5)
3 - Frame Sequence counter
4 - SVout ADC [high]
5 - SVout ADC [low]
6 - User 1 ADC [high] byte
7 - User 1 ADC [low] byte
8 - User 2 ADC [high] byte
9 - User 2 ADC [low] byte
10 - RPM count [high] byte
11 - RPM count [low] byte
12 - CRC (1's comp. sum of above)


Error Codes and PID Operational Status
WBo2's hardware and software contains two PIDs (Proportional, Integral & Derivative) feedback controllers for both Lambda sensing and also precise heater temperature control. Each PID samples a signal from the Lambda sensor and in turn provides an output that in turn controls that signal:
  • Lambda measurement - Vs (Nernst cell sensing) for Ip (pump current) control.
  • Heater temperature - Ri (internal sensor resistance) for heater PWM (Pulse Width Modulation) control.

Because both Ri and Vs are meaningless until the sensor has reached a minimum operating temperature, the two PIDs also operate in a startup mode. During startup the sensor is run in open loop mode where heater current is closely controlled to ensure the fastest warmup while remaining within the sensors operating envelope.

Feedback control relies on a measured signal being slightly different from the setpoint or target value. One measure of the PID's current status is how far away the controlled value is from this setpoint. In the case of the Vs/Ip feedback loop, the Vs setpoint is 450 mVolts, and for the Ri/PWM feedback loop the Ri setpoint is 80 ohms.

Two PID status bytes (bytes 26 and 27 of the logged data frame) are available for possible debugging. Byte 26 is for the Vs/Ip (or wideband) PID, and byte 27 is for the Heater PID. They take the general form shown below (numbers 7 to 0 are the bit positions within each byte):
  • Bits 7 to 5 represents the PID code which takes the following values:
    Bit 765 - PID Operation
    000 - operating normally
    001 - Integral accumulator at lower clamp value
    010 - Integral accumulator at upper clamp value
    011 - Output control value at lower clamp
    100 - Output control value at upper clamp
  • Bit 4 (E) is set when the IPID error band is exceeded (but this in itself is not an error).
  • Bit 3 (0) is always zero.
  • Bits 2 to 0 reflect the current PID state and is different for each byte/PID. They are described as followings:
    • Byte 26
      Value - Byte 26 Vs/Ip PID (wideband) State - Red and Amber LED action
      0 - null/off state, only seen at system start-up or during debugging - slow, even RED flash, AMBER off
      1 - Sense state, looking for presence of sensor. - Even RED flash and very short AMBER flashes
      2 - Cold state, heating up sensor, PIDs not yet operational - Short RED flash, AMBER shows heater on time
      3 - Warm state, PIDs operational - RED solid ON = PIDs OK or, RED blinking = PID(s) error band exceeded
      4 - Config state, used for system testing - Double RED flash.
      5 - unused - nil
      Note that the "blinking" LED in the operational state does not indicate that either of the PIDs are unlocked, per se, but that one of the PIDs is operating with its error term greater than a pre-programmed threshold value.

    • Byte 27
      Value - Byte 27 Heater PID State - Red and Amber LED action
      0 - Normal Operation state - slow, even RED flash, AMBER shows heater on time
      1 - Vbatt high - Even RED flash and very short AMBER flashes
      2 - Vbatt low - Even RED flash and very short AMBER flashes
      3 - Heater short
      4 - Heater open circuit (sensor not present)
      5 - FET failure
      6 - unused - nil


The above can be found HERE for further review.

Hopefully that's all that would be needed to support their wb02.

_________________

Current Car: 2002 ADM WRX STi
Current Engine: EJ207
Current Mods: X-Force 3" TBE Exhaust, GCG "bolt-on" GT3076R, APS 3" Hard Turbo Inlet, Short Ram Pod, RomRaider/ECUFlash Tune
Current Power: 248kw@wheels (332whp)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Techedge wideband?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 11:40 am 
Offline
RomRaider Developer

Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 9:49 pm
Posts: 3662
Location: Canada eh!
Thanks for tracking down that info.
Ticket opened: http://trac2.assembla.com/romraider/ticket/91


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Techedge wideband?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 3:33 am 
Offline
Newbie

Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:46 pm
Posts: 61
Wow, you guys are impressive :)
Part of me kinda wishes i understood all that stuff, i have an idea but not indepth about it.

Hope one of the genious's can get it going :D

Pickup my new car tomorrow and want to stop the pinging from the crappy standard b4 ADM map.

Thanks everyone


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Techedge wideband?
PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 8:33 am 
Offline
Experienced

Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:08 pm
Posts: 109
Location: Australia 05 WRX
Hello there,

Hows it going with getting the techedge to work. I have one as well and have been unable to use it. Before I purchased the techedge I rang and asked them would it work with Romraider Logger and was told it would work as it a set standard that widebands use etc etc. So I purchased it, welded in bung and installed it all nicely in the car only to find that it didnt work at all with Romraider. When I rang them and told them this it was all of a sudden my fault that it didnt work . He said he could get it to work with Romraider when he got time to sit down and do it, which was 10 months ago. Oh well. I really hope you guys can get it to work so I can finally start on the openloop fuel part of my tune.
Bye.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Techedge wideband?
PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2011 6:02 pm 
Offline
RomRaider Developer

Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 9:49 pm
Posts: 3662
Location: Canada eh!
Please give the new Tech Edge plug a workout in RC8 and let me know what you find.
Currently it only supports data format 2.0
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=7221


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 29 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Style based on FI Subsilver by phpBBservice.nl