RomRaider

I've long wanted to make a major gui overhaul in RomRaider. The current GUI is clunky, and even more so behind the scenes. I have my own ideas for the changes, but I'm not a tuner, and I've never used any other tuning software. I have a vague idea of what a professional tuner does when he uses the software, so I need input. Bear in mind I'm not looking for feature requests. I want to know how to make the current feature set easier to use.

A few changes I already want to make:
- I think people prefer to use the keyboard and not mouse..? Facilitate that. Increment will work by pushing =/+ without pushing shift.
- Tables take up too much screen space. Move table toolbars to the RomRaider toolbar so they aren't duplicated in each table
- Use JTables, which will make cells take up less screen space
- Add scrolling to tables
- Switch tables without using mouse (maybe TAB can switch between table list and selected table, use arrows to choose table and enter to open selected table?)
- More shortcut keys. +/- obviously, * to multiply, something (e?) for direct value input, what else?

I would work on the '3d' view when working with the fuel tables.

When you click 3d, it shouldn't be another window, it should be attached.

When you highlight a few cells in the tables, it should highlight the cells in 3d, and vise versa. That's very important when pinpointing fuel curves. You should be able to select multiple points in the 3d view.

I also think that the 3d view shouldn't be a series of blocks so to speak, it should be like traditional 3d views found in other tuning applications.

I know you don't want features, but the biggest downfall I see to rom raider is three things:

1] Cant flash with it, main reason why I hardly use it and just stick with ecuflash, sometimes I only use romraider editor for the unit conversions it has. I use romraider logger all the time however.

2] Won't overlay a 0-5v input, My tuning wideband is a analog output, not a serial. Most every tuner in my state uses an analog output, not a serial. Romraider needs to be able to do this and have user adjustable scaling for various widebands.

3] Can't read & reset check engine lights, can make things a pain for time to time.


Also on romraider logger, it shouldn't auto arrange your dashboard if you don't want it to, makes it a pain to relocate your parameters every time you use it. You should be able to put gauges exactly were you want them. Alphabetical order isn't the order of importance so to speak.

It also loses the template profile info, gauges that I have added to the dash board and saved the profile in the previous session sometimes have to be loaded again and again.

Just my 2 cents

For what its worth, I own a speed shop and tune cars for a living..

Thanks for your time,
DK

All very useful input. See my comments below:

I agree on the first couple counts. What about tabs on the table window? Table / 3D? Syncing selection is also a good call. I don't really have an opinion on type of 3d view. If enough people agree with you then it would totally make sense. Considering most every other tuning software does it that way, I would almost expect they will.


What I really hope for is an interface on EcuFlash. Back in the day it was a command line tool and would have worked perfectly. The older versions of course don't support newer ECUs. I think someone will have to convice Colby to create a command line version or a library we could hook in to. It definitely doesn't make sense to duplicate his effort.


This is definitely possible, but you'll need some sort hardware of interface for your computer. I'm sure there is an ADC with a USB interface that we could support as a plugin. If you would, please make a new thread discussing generic analog input.


I definitely won't be working this before or during the overhaul personally, but I completely agree. Would have been great to have tonight. Hopefully some developer has the time and desire to get to this before I could.


Very good suggestions. I also think the same parameters ought to be selected when you switch from graph to gauge view. I won't be doing anything with the logger in the overhaul I'm planning now but this is definitely stuff that should be looked at by whoever/whenever it does. Thanks for your input!

Thanks for your reply and considerations!

DK

I've gotten in the habit of just using ECUFlash as my editor as well. It's easy to copy/paste in and out of and the tables and graphical representations are easier to see/work with.

One of the points above in regards to being able to highlight cells on a table and see those areas on the 3d graphic would be very useful.

Agreed also on the gauge arrangement. I use RomRaider gauges on my nav screen so these are up whenever I'm driving and it would be nice to arrange these as needed. As it is now, when switching between logging profiles, I have to go to my data only profile which removes all gauges so when I select a new profile the gauges comes back up in order.

* My #1 request... populate tables when the user opens the table (on demand) rather than populating all of them when the use opens the ROM. This is by far my favorite thing about EcuFlash. I don't know if that's within the scope of a UI overhaul, but it sure would make me happy.

* Moving the menus and toolbars to the main window frame would also make me happy.

* Using the tab key to jump between table views and the tree view would be cool too. Also put the toolbar controls (increments, etc) into the tab cycle.

* Make the File menu actions work like they do in normal Windows apps (New, Open, Save, Save-As). In particular, it bugs me when I pick "Save" and get prompted about overwriting - that's what Save is supposed to do. Save As is for changing the file name.

* Table visualization a la Timing Editor. topic4439.html If you want the source, PM me an email address and I'll zip it up. It's C#, and it's not pretty, but you're welcome to it.

* Use a tab control for each table window, with tabs for the table view, "show changes" version of the table view, 3D view, table description text, and conversion settings. Control-PageUp and Control-PageDown should navigate the tabs, like they do in FireFox and in regular Windows tab views (IE doesn't support that, which aggravates me to no end, but that's another story).

* For the "close ROM" and "revert to saved" buttons, add an "Are you sure?" prompt. Those buttons frighten me.[/list]

This was a design decision at some point. A lot of people were clicking "save" and losing their original maps. I think maybe reverting to a normal Windows implementation and then maybe adding a setting to ask if you want to overwrite automatically or warn would be a good idea.


This is more of a new feature request than within the scope of what I want to do at first. If it doesn't show up after big changes have been made, remind me.

The rest of your comments are exactly what I'm looking for. Good stuff.

Wanted to let you know I've done some preliminary research in to this. Haven't come up with anything yet. I think hackaday.com might be a good bet. I'm picturing $10-20 cables, possibly with the same RS232 chip the OpenPort has. Someone has to have made them.

<offtopic> Consider removing your TGVs and using the sensor plugs for 0-5v input. </offtopic>

I thought about suggesting that, but he can't very well ask every person who wants a tune to remove their TGVs and wire the wideband to it.

<offtopic>
I was about to finish mine up tonight when this happened:

I'd be OK with an "Are you sure?" prompt, that protects against that sort of mistake, and it only takes one extra keystroke when you really want to save (which, for me, is always).

Or maybe just rename the original file as Filename_2010.12.19-12.15AM.bin so that data is never lost. Then again, that might start to pollute the hard drive... not sure if I like this idea or not, actually. It's something to consider, though.

It would also be nice if Alt-F, Alt-A worked like usual - notice the hotkey for "Save As" under the file menu in Notepad, for example.

More hotkeys: For copy-paste, there's actually two sets in common usage: Ctrl-C and Ctrl-Insert = copy, Ctrl-V and Shift-Insert = paste. And Ctrl-A for "select all."

Also, I like how pressing * opens the "multiply by..." dialog box in EcuFlash.

Was there always a 90-degree kink in that bit? Or did the other end pop apart for other reasons?

No, I had it in my TGV when the housing fell apart and I just dropped it on the floor so I wouldn't kill myself.

1) Increase in speed. Sounds like this is being looked at.
2) Make sure you can see the entire table on one screen at one time. I'm looking at you, MAF Scaling! Seriously, trying to input data into a box you can't see because you've had to click-drag the widow to the side 12 times to see the high end of the table is just not cool
3) When you have multiple ROMs open, make it much easier to tell which ROM has the focus (which ROM will respond to save/close, etc). With the way it is now, it's too easy to be doing things with more than one ROM at a time with tables open from each (or even just the Compare function) and then hit save save the file you didn't care about with the name of the file you did care about, and then close the important file without saving.
4) Similarly, make it pissy about closing a file with unsaved changes. Again, this comes from it being insufficiently clear which ROM has focus when multiple ROMS are open.

1) I like the idea of moving the table toolbar to its own space and using it for all the tables. Alot of times im scaling the MAF table and its so wide that I have to move the table over and the toolbar gets hidden so I cant see what im entering.

2) I think scroll bars in tables would be annoying though, they take up space and are a pain in the ass. I think scroll bars for the entire viewing area work well as it already is. Maybe have a button or something that would maximize/minimize a table so that it takes up the entire romraider window area. I think the MAF scaling table is the only table that has an issue with visibility though. Read "7)", I think that would help a lot with this

3) When closing a rom there should be a "Are you sure you want to close xxx rom" or "Would you like to save changes before closing xxx rom", I have accidentally closed the wrong rom and lost my work so many times its not funny. I think I have done this also because there is a small glitch that when you click a rom it highlights it but it doesn't actually select it unless you double click it. So if you single click and then hit "close" it will close the rom you were previously working in.

4) Maybe make tables act more like files. So you can also drag and drop them into the viewing area. Then make it so that say you have a table open from one rom, you could drag the same table from another rom over the already open table and release and it will prompt "would you like to overwrite this tables values from this new table" or something and then it will copy all the new table values over. Or you could just drag and drop a table from one rom into another rom in the left pane and it would do the same thing without even needing to open any tables up.

5) Make it so you can minimize and entire rom in the left pane area but keep certain folders still visible

6) Make it so you can undock the left side rom pane and move it around and adjust its size both vertically and horizontally. Also it would be nice if you could split a tune off into its own dock/pane

7) Make 1D tables vertical instead of horizontal. Especially the MAF scaling table, this table is such a pain in the ass to deal with.

8 ) Make it so you can set up some kind of auto revision format for saving in the settings area or something. So you can have some kind of user input in the settings area where you put in your personal system ex: "-rev*". So you can just hit save and it will automatically save it as tune-rev1.hex and then the next time you hit save tune-rev2.hex and so forth... Also with this maybe a little comment box could come up when you hit save and you could place comments on each revision that you can see when you open it back up. Maybe place the comments in some kind of log file

Thats all I can think of right now