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 Post subject: Wierd AFR Issues. Swinging almost a full point.
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:36 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:59 am
Posts: 71
2002 WRX Sedan
EVOIII16G
modd'd stock injectors 808, 820, 820, 824
gp moto catless 3" TBE.
helix v3 up pipe
tial 38mm EWG
LC-1
Lightweight flywheel
domtune boost control solenoid

I think thats everything...

Anyways about a month or so ago the hose blew off the passangers side of the intake manifold and i lost fuel pressure and was running lean for a day or so. Got it hooked back up on there and stuck a ziptie around it for good measure. Immediately I noticed I was running ~10:1 instead of my target 11.3:1 or so. sometimes even in the high 9s:1 ratio. pig rich basicly. I figured it was just because that line had been leaking the whole time, causing me to have poor fuel pressure, and we had just been tuning around it the whole time. Either that, or the TGVs were getting sucked closed at high rpms since my sensor was screwed up from the new turbo install. I took some logs for a few days, and then one day all of a sudden I was running right where I should be, right at 11.3:1. It's been doing this for a few weeks now.

I put in new plugs the other day, one step colder NGK Iridiums at the request of my tuner. Also fixed the TGV sensor that we screwed up on the turbo install.

did a compression test and the results were great. I can never remember which cylinder is which so I'll just use front and rear.

Drivers Front - 160
Drivers Rear - 155
Pass Front - 149
Pass Rear - 155
Drivers Front - 155


I still have the same AFR problems, although the car does feel much better with the new plugs. Here are the 2 most recent logs. The rich log was taken 2 days before the lean log. I haven't even opened the hood since then. I haven't touched anything on the car in between these 2 logs.


Attachments:
File comment: Rich the 21st
Rich.csv [5.75 KiB]
Downloaded 110 times
File comment: Lean yesterday the 23rd
Lean.csv [5.41 KiB]
Downloaded 95 times


Last edited by simon021 on Sun Feb 24, 2008 4:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Wierd AFR Issues. Swinging almost a full point.
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 3:40 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:04 am
Posts: 414
Location: Henderson, KY
You really need to spend some more time on the map. You're running way too much WGD down low making it over shoot target and then correct really hard.

As for the AFR issues, it would help if you posted the map, w/o seeing the AFR target as well as the injector scalar we're pissing in the wind.

I plotted the logs you posted so you can really see whats going on w/ the boost control. You really need to spend some more time on the WGD & TD tables.


Attachments:
log.gif
log.gif [ 102.63 KiB | Viewed 1991 times ]

_________________
1988 Celica Alltrac - stockish
2005 LGT 5MT 315whp/340wtq -sold
2003 WRX 5MT 371whp/355wtq -sold
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 Post subject: Re: Wierd AFR Issues. Swinging almost a full point.
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 4:22 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:59 am
Posts: 71
I've already discussed the boost spike with my tuner, but that doesnt have anything to do with the AFR issues. (i wouldn't think so anyways) I would think it has to be something mechanical. I have a meth kit half installed so before we really get the map dialed in, i need to get this AFR issue figured out before i put the meth kit on and complicate things further.

I'm not real sure if i should post the rom, but here is the fuel table.
Image

Injector flow scaling is set to 724.98, my injectors are set up like this

Front of Car
__
2 1
4 3

Rear of Car

1 - 808
2 - 820
3 - 820
4 - 824

Those are the numbers from witchhunter.

My biggest question is how my AFRs can swing almost a full point randomly like that. The car obviously felt WAY stronger yesterday when it was hitting the proper AFR targets.

this is on 91, as 93 is a 30 mile round trip drive thats totally the opposite direction from where I usually travel.
Also forgot to add that I have a domtune boost control solenoid as well, edited first post to reflect that.


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 Post subject: Re: Wierd AFR Issues. Swinging almost a full point.
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:24 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:59 pm
Posts: 197
Are you joking? Your boost control is way out of control. That isn't a boost spike, it's a boost rollercoaster. Your boost swings 10!! PSI in about 400 RPM. This massive change in boost is almost certainly causing your "random" AFR errors.

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 Post subject: Re: Wierd AFR Issues. Swinging almost a full point.
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 11:35 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:59 am
Posts: 71
wouldn't it be consistently screwed up though? it'll go a few days at 10:1 then spontaniously be hitting targets at 11:3 to one with nothing else changing. Are you saying that the boost spike is causing this issue?


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 Post subject: Re: Wierd AFR Issues. Swinging almost a full point.
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:55 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:59 am
Posts: 71
Ok I think i have it figured out. Correct me if I'm wrong here.

My tuner sent me a new map today to fix the boost issue. I had a hunch that after I reset the ECU i was going to be running pig rich again, because I noticed my AFR learning was almost -7. Sure enough, I flashed the new map, reset the ECU and went to take a log and I'm running high 9s low 10:1. I'm willing to bet it will get leaner incrementally until it's hitting targets again. Which leads me back to my original theory, that the line coming off the manifold that effects fuel pressure was leaking the whole time we were tuning before, and now that it's on there tight, it's running rich.

Is this a plausible situation? AFR learning is in percent right? 7% leaner than ~10:1 is pretty close to 10.7:1 Makes sense right?


Attachments:
File comment: Fresh ECU reset with new map to fix boost spike
enginuitylog_20080225_072643.csv [5.15 KiB]
Downloaded 92 times
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 Post subject: Re: Wierd AFR Issues. Swinging almost a full point.
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:24 am 
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Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 12:05 pm
Posts: 30
Location: Taiwan
This might be possible. If it was tuned with the FPR missing the vacuum hose it would certainly run PIG RICH when putting the hose back on. Better get it checked.

Cheers,

Jasper.


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 Post subject: Re: Wierd AFR Issues. Swinging almost a full point.
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:30 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:59 am
Posts: 71
Well, I think the hose was on there, but it was leaking. When it blew off completely I knew it right away, as I was running like almost 13:1. I put it back on and was immediately running 9.8:1 or so. I went through my logs over that period of time and over the next few days it would end up back around 10:8 or low 11:1s. much closer to target. Just like yesterday, I'd reset the ECU and it would go right back to running pig rich. I put a ziptie on the vacuum line so it should be on there securely now.

I think we just need to readjust AFR targets and go from there. I'm pretty confident this is the issue.


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 Post subject: Re: Wierd AFR Issues. Swinging almost a full point.
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:38 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:04 am
Posts: 414
Location: Henderson, KY
simon021 wrote:
I think we just need to readjust injector scalar and go from there. I'm pretty confident this is the issue.


^fixed.

_________________
1988 Celica Alltrac - stockish
2005 LGT 5MT 315whp/340wtq -sold
2003 WRX 5MT 371whp/355wtq -sold


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 Post subject: Re: Wierd AFR Issues. Swinging almost a full point.
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 1:42 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:59 am
Posts: 71
Ahh ok. That makes more sense. I always wondered why he scaled my injectors so much lower than the actual CC flow rate. Makes sense now.


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 Post subject: Re: Wierd AFR Issues. Swinging almost a full point.
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 2:46 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:59 am
Posts: 71
2 more logs on my lunch hour. I dont see anything in my logs to confirm my thoughts. Do i need to log a different AFR learning parameter? I can't see how anything else could effect the AFRs that much just from resetting the ECU other than some sort of AFR learning.

The A/F Learning (Stored) was -2.44 on the last lean log, but yet on this new log it's -3.81 and pig rich

I dont get it.

Any ideas?


Attachments:
enginuitylog_20080225_122553.csv [5.4 KiB]
Downloaded 82 times
enginuitylog_20080225_122644.csv [6.23 KiB]
Downloaded 96 times
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 Post subject: Re: Wierd AFR Issues. Swinging almost a full point.
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 2:50 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 4:10 pm
Posts: 367
Wow....be careful, you are risking cylinder wash with those kind of sustained AFR's.

What exactly is your tuner doing for you?

The last two cars that I tuned with modded WRX injectors had Perrin SRI's. They both required a scalar right at 820cc with the proper latency adjustment.

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2004 WRX Wagon and 2013 STI Sedan


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 Post subject: Re: Wierd AFR Issues. Swinging almost a full point.
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:46 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:59 am
Posts: 71
Lance Lucas wrote:
Wow....be careful, you are risking cylinder wash with those kind of sustained AFR's.

What exactly is your tuner doing for you?

The last two cars that I tuned with modded WRX injectors had Perrin SRI's. They both required a scalar right at 820cc with the proper latency adjustment.


I use the factory air box. does that make a difference?

We have been kind of holding off on map revisions trying to figure out why the AFRs are going from pig rich to close to where it was before. We thought it was a boost leak, but everything checks out there. I just noticed today when i flashed the new map and reset the ECU to correct the huge boost spike, that i was back to pig rich, which lead me to believe it was some kind of A/F learning issue now that we have proper fuel pressure.

I'm thinking (hoping) if we just rescale the injectors that the problem will totally go away. I'm hoping he emails me back tonight about it.


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 Post subject: Re: Wierd AFR Issues. Swinging almost a full point.
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:46 pm 
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Experienced

Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:04 am
Posts: 414
Location: Henderson, KY
Lance Lucas wrote:
The last two cars that I tuned with modded WRX injectors had Perrin SRI's. They both required a scalar right at 820cc with the proper latency adjustment.


In my experience with 3 or 4 cars that I've tuned that had Perrin SRI, the injector scalar had to be MUCH MUCH higher than necessary due to the gross skewing the perrin intakes do. The Perrin SRI's are total garbage IMHO.

_________________
1988 Celica Alltrac - stockish
2005 LGT 5MT 315whp/340wtq -sold
2003 WRX 5MT 371whp/355wtq -sold


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 Post subject: Re: Wierd AFR Issues. Swinging almost a full point.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:09 am 
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Experienced

Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2007 6:28 pm
Posts: 349
If you changed the intake and not the injectors, why, Why, WHY are you changing the injector scaling rather than the MAF scaling. Right tool for the right job, man. You don't drive nails with a screwdriver when there's a hammer readily available.


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